Overindulged the grandkids.

[KayKay]

Originally Posted by LucyVanPelt

I think that last post is getting to the real root of the problem, rattlesnake.

I suspect this is your real motivation for being overly generous: You know toys aren't going to make up for neglect, or borderline abuse, or just plain meanness, but maybe they'd bring some comfort and let the children know they are loved.

Put the money you'd spend on the toys in an account and use that to give your grandchildren happy experiences instead, just a trip to get ice cream or something. Let them know they are loved unconditionally. Be positive with them, never criticizing their parents or the GF, but actively listening to them. You can be a place of comfort.

I am so sorry you and your grandchildren have to experience this.

Ditto to all of this.

I'm so sorry, rattlesnake. I feel horrible for your grandkids and angry at your son. I don't blame you one iota for feeling the way you do.

If you don't mind me asking, what is the custody arrangement that your DS and xDIL have? I'm trying to figure out how you can best help the kids without your DS getting his nose out of joint.

[rattlesnake]

Originally Posted by KayKay

If you don't mind me asking, what is the custody arrangement that your DS and xDIL have? I'm trying to figure out how you can best help the kids without your DS getting his nose out of joint.

They have 50/50 legal custody but she has them on school days and DS has them every weekend.

It is so darn complicated and I don't want to bore you all with the whole ugly saga, but I think I already mentioned she was 18 when she had the first kid and DS was 19. They both welcomed me helping them and more than once I found my xDIL actually being such a poor mother that I should have called OCY but I didn't. Instead, I took it upon myself to be highly involved in the children's lives and took them to my home once or twice per week for overnights. Both DS and his x were fine with this when they were married, but one result was my H and I become extremely close to these kids, and protective of them. I took my xDIL under my wing and tried to be a mother to her, the mother I knew she never had since her mother was a druggie and xDIL and her siblings were in foster care for parts of their childhood. Quite frankly I've been told some horrific things (by my xDIL) about her mother.

I used to take her and the kids shopping, and to lunch. I paid someone to teach her to drive. I even went with her to buy a wedding gown, did most of the things a mother does with a daughter. Went with her for doctor's appointments for the kids, the list goes on.

In spite of some obvious glitches, I loved my xDIL like a daughter and I was just about as devastated as my DS when she left him for another man. That was 3 years ago and things are more settled now, especially with DS now having someone new in his life. There were some very trying times but I guess it has never gotten so bad that I can't talk to her.

I called her today! We talked quite awhile. I felt better after talking to her, and after sharing here too so thanks to you and others here on this forum. I knew the kids would have told her what happened on Christmas and I wanted to talk to her about it because apparently he has "informed" her that she is to only get them 1 present too. I just told her that he can tell me what to do but he can't tell her what to do in her house, when it comes to Christmas presents for her own children.

Put the money you'd spend on the toys in an account and use that to give your grandchildren happy experiences instead, just a trip to get ice cream or something. Let them know they are loved unconditionally.

We've been doing that for 9 years. My H and I took them camping, took them for ice cream, take them to amusement parks and fairs and more stuff than you can ever imagine. Plus we actually play with them and do things together at our home. I have so much of it captured in videos; my hobby is taking videos and editing them. The kids even love watching these home videos with me. I will say our relationship is far deeper than material things and I say that without reservation.

[KayKay]

That makes me happy. I know you are doing the very best you can with this unfortunate situation.

[LucyVanPelt]

Originally Posted by rattlesnake

We've been doing that for 9 years. My H and I took them camping, took them for ice cream, take them to amusement parks and fairs and more stuff than you can ever imagine. Plus we actually play with them and do things together at our home. I have so much of it captured in videos; my hobby is taking videos and editing them. The kids even love watching these home videos with me. I will say our relationship is far deeper than material things and I say that without reservation.

I suspected that was the case.

You're doing all you can do. You're trying to provide love for your xDIL as well as your grands. In all honesty, reading your post, I was thinking, "Your xDIL found the right MIL but the wrong DH." I hope she can hang on to you.

I hope your son gets over his anger and his need to control things.

I hope you can can see that you're doing so much good for those children!

[Knot2loud]

Rattlesnake... You and your DH are awesome grand parents!!! Your grandchildren will remember these things you do for them. You two are definitely making a phenomenal impact on their lives.

[rattlesnake]

Rattlesnake... You and your DH are awesome grand parents!!! Your grandchildren will remember these things you do for them.

Thanks for saying that. I can't help but think of the complicated dynamics ever since those two kids were born. I relate a lot with grandparents who raise their grandchildren but neither the mother or father is so extreme that they would lose custody, in this case.

It does not stop me from my intense love for the kids and wanting to make sure they are happy and well cared for. Yes, at times I feel I'm too close to them, but what should I do? Try to detach? It is not that easy, nor am I sure it would be the right thing to do.

[KayKay]

Have you talked to your son since Christmas, rattlesnake? How is that relationship going?

[rattlesnake]

Originally Posted by KayKay

Have you talked to your son since Christmas, rattlesnake? How is that relationship going?

I have not really talked to him since then, except briefly about some holiday plans that had to be changed due to horrific weather. And he made a point to tell me that he "still loves me" blah blah blah. I still love him too but I'm not going to pretend what he did on Christmas day did not anger me or that I'm "over it." I was working on editing the Christmas video yesterday and it was very painful. I've made a DVD every year since the grandkids were born but was thinking maybe this was the year I can't do it. Seeing the "box" that was designated for GD and GS and then seeing the part where DS said they could only choose one gift from those...Somebody must have shut off the camcorder (which was on a tripod) because fortunately I did not see either my reaction or the kids' reactions). I still remember it though.

I mentioned before that I have been enabling him financially for 3 years, ever since the split from his wife. He asked me to "loan" him $200 this December, but I transferred $800 to his account, knowing as always I would never get one red cent back from him. Now I know his check for his car payment bounced so he spent all of the 800, all of his own paycheck, and then some. (But could not spend $20 on his own kids for Christmas presents). I'll soon likely be getting a phone call from my XH (his father) who also has enabled him far too much and he cosigned this loan for DS's car, and he always gets notified when the car payment is not made. It has happened in the past, and my XH calls me to "fix" the problem. Not happening any more. Wish me luck and strength sticking to my guns with that.

[LucyVanPelt]

Oh, dear. Cosigning is NEVER a good idea!

Your XH is an adult who took on the risk of cosigning. You don't need to enable him and your son with financial support. Let them work it out.

Figure out what you are willing and able to donate to "the cause," and stick to that limit.

New year, new you!

[KayKay]

Originally Posted by rattlesnake

It has happened in the past, and my XH calls me to "fix" the problem. Not happening any more. Wish me luck and strength sticking to my guns with that.

Wishing you much luck and strength!

Just in case it helps - whenever I have had to stick to my guns over the phone, I find it helps to have an index card by all of my phones with a script of what I want to say. Maybe that would help you?

"Sorry, XH, but I have realized over the past couple of weeks that I have been completely enabling DS. He is irresponsible with money, and I keep giving him more thinking that it will help him. In the long run, it doesn't help him. So it stops now."

If it were me, I'd be careful to not express any judgments on how DS spends his money. Not that you are wrong, but it gives them a toe hold on how to argue that you're wrong and chip away at your resolve.