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Old October 21st, 2009, 05:50 AM
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Re: Reply 1

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Seeking Sensibility Creme, as for everything else, I know that you are not my mil.


Thanks for understanding that...I believe it's very easy to put ourselves into the problems of someone else....for instance, a while back I tried talking on some of these forums about our situation...and it was very hard for the DIL's to understand, b/c they had cruel, self impossed MIL's.

Not everyone is like that...there are some really stinky DIL's out there...believe me...

I'm going to address some of these issues you bought up...please know, I'm not arguing with you...and you don't know my DIL...so it's important that we both remain objective.

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Your son changed diapers, kudos to him! Yet, you make it sound like he did it because your dil was useless.


No, I don't believe my DIL is useless, I believe your only seeing things from your point of view here...you have to try and understand, my DIL had a very bad childhood...her mother only cared about herself and to heck with the kids...actually, my DIL is the better of four kids. She learned at an early age to turn off her feelings and suit herself, she had to, in order to survive.

Her mother would abandon them and come back over and over again. To give you an idea...how manipulative she can be...and believe me, I don't dislike her, remember, this is learned behavior and conditioning she began at an early age.

They were visiting me...all was going well, but then, my son, started telling me about his job...whenever he does this, she gets really upset...(she needs an incredible amount of attention at all times, and I believe she feels I'm taking his attention away from her when he addresses me) so, I'm not sure it's b/c he's talking to me or for several other reasons.

While, he's talking, she stands up and walks out of my home. She waited out front for my son...we just looked at each other, like, "What the heck". He left, went back to his father's where they were staying, and then returned.

Later, his father told me, they didn't think anything was going on...except that he thought it was odd that my son left by himself again. He came back and we discussed what happened. While he was gone, my son's father said, DIL walked around the house humming, like "mission accomplished". They had no idea anything had happened. She was smiling and happy.

My DIL learned how to pretend and pretends to be useless, or when she wants something, she acts out, and she is out right rude and aloof to others. Personally I think it's a front to act tough...but I don't know....and by pretending to be helpless, she doesn't have to do anything.

In all honesty, she possesses spunk and moxy and there isn't anything she couldn't accomplish if she put her mind to it. And I'm going to say, she has some very good qualities...

Believe me, now that her hubby is away, she is learning to be more independent...but the fact remains, when he comes back, he, is an enabler and he will be the one to take over everything again, and she is perfectly happy with that.

So, they are both to blame, they both feed off each other...

Once we were in a store, and she pretended to get all upset, while asking me, "Where's the soda"? And yes, when he wasn't around, she took care of the baby, she had to, but the abnormal part was, when he was around, she would simply walk away and let him handle it...

Once while driving in the car, the baby had diarreha...poor thing, it was all over the place...he took the baby out of the car seat, placed the baby on a blanket and cleaned her up, while mom freshened her make up and got out and walked around...

Quote:
Really, she does nothing? I have no doubt that my mil believes that my husband works his fanny off just to please me. I have no doubt that my mil will say that I donít do enough.


Perhaps, but again, I am not your MIL...you and my DIL are two seprate entites...you are not like her, yet, you identify me with your MIL? While I agree with you and know for a fact, that there are stinky MIL's out there, there are good one's to. And there are also, many wonderful DIL's out there...as well as frumpy ones...yanno?

I will say, she has changed over the years, they did go to counseling and she does do a little more...but still relies on my son to do everything for her when he's around, plus work 3 jobs. The last time I was down there, she cleaned and washed up the kitchen and when my son came in she says..."Honey, Look, I washed up the kitchen"...and he acted as if she were a little kid...praising her for doing so? He seems to feed off of giving her so much attention..and if I know him, he's made up his mind, he's going to give her a life she's never known and make her very happy?

Again, please know, this is just not simply what I've seen, but also his father, step mother and step brothers and sister. Not to mention, his aunt. I was told, no one can stand to visit them any longer then 3 days...and it's true...she becomes very moody, you actually start to become afraid, uneasy and just want to get the heck outa there...she doesn't talk...yet, when they come home, they have stayed and actually lived with my son's father, several times...which is ok...but, it's very difficult for her to see beyond herself.

Once, while I was there, they had friends over....the men, were kidding around as men do about wives...nothing major, just a simple joke, everyone laughed and it was over. But, when everyone left, my son got so scared and actually forgot I was there...he walked over to her at the sink and started apologizing to her for kidding around...he was all but down on his knees, I didn't believe what I was seeing? She was pissed and said, "Whatever" and walked into the bedroom.

Quote:
I have no doubt that my mil is scared silly at this time while she is getting old. I have no doubt that she feels that all her boys, including my husband, would be more beneficial to her if they were unattached. I have no doubt that my mil is extremely jealous of me because I am given attention that she feels that she so rightfully deserves, especially during her golden years!


I find that very odd if she feels that way? But, again, I have a different thought pattern...I don't fear getting old...matter of fact, this to me, is the best time of my life...I'm very happy, and constantly making new friends, traveling, and enjoying the comfort of my individuality. No husband to take care of or kids...I find it very suitable and enjoy this time...and look forward to retirement. Plan to take some classes.

I would never ever expect or want my son to take care of me. You have to understand, I am a very independent woman, and what I can't do, I hire people to do.

My son has a wife and child, his own place to work on, his jobs and THAT should be his first priority. To me and for me, having my son and DIL take care of me, well, candidly, it just wouldn't happen.

As far as being jealous...I feel very sorry for your mother in law that she looks at it that way...she should feel happy and fortunate, that her son found the love of his life...? That to me, is so foreign...not to be happy for another's success...? To actually be jealous of your own DIL and son's love is sick, but that's just me?
  #12  
Old October 21st, 2009, 06:02 AM
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Re: Reply 2

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My husband’s mother, too, was pleased with her son’s pick. For goodness sake, she pressured my husband. At that time in her life, I was perfect for her. It is and always has been about her.


one thing, right now, and these past 13 years, regardless of how my DIL feels about me, what matters is how they feel about each other
so far, it's been good for them, it works for them and if my son is happy, fine.

My problem in this whole thing is, that for the small amount of time we are together, why can't we all just get along.

Have I been hurt, heck yeah and I was very angry at times, venting on these forums.

My son and I were very close at one time...he actually called me on his honeymoon, and I said...ohhhhh boy, this is not good...right now, you need to be attentive to your wife hun....you need to have a great time together and call me when you return home. I bet that really hurt her and made her mad...remember, I was a young wife to, once.

And let it be know, it's nature and natural for a father to gravitate towards his daughters, and a mother to gravitate towards her sons...it's an opposite sex thing and proven to be so. It's not something abnormal. I have many girlfriends whose sons call them once a week or more....but so do their DIL's. They all get along very well and it is so happy to see.

Please note, these are not simply my findings, but the findings of his extended family, as well...they fear her big time...that she might do the same thing to them, as she has done to me.

I'll tell you what I think happened...don't know if I'm right...but my DIL, has very very little confidence in herself. And let us remember, she grew up without love, a sound/stable environment, void of a mother or father.

So, she grew up adopting her personality the best she knew how. But when your adandoned over and over again, you adopt a feeling of guilt, thinking it's something you did that drove your mother away...you fear, you hurt terribly, you don't understand. So you develop what you know best, and if your not given love, and taught how to behave, your grow up with no idea of how to be. She acts out like a child, yells and screams, and doesn't even realize it. Boy does she have a temper. I bet a lot of times, she's angry and doesn't even know why.

Just a short time ago, my son's friends, both girls and guys, told me, when they all got together, they talked about me...because, it's what they all had in common. Those kids spent many hours and weekends at my home. We went places together, and I treated them all like mine. I was very strict, my rules applied...but they respected that. They even called me mom.

They were all good kids, now great adults. But they believe talking about me like they did, plus my son, bragging about me, my cooking, how close we were and how I was strict but fair, started the entire thing.

She feared he would never love her the way he loved his mother...and the sad part is...he loves her more...and she doesn't even realize it.

She hates rejection, fears it...actually...why, b/c her mother rejected her...over and over again...she also cannot admit she is wrong...or say, I'm sorry...It is very difficult for her to say thank you.

She is, though, the love of his life...and she has everything she could want...but she's still not happy. If she wants something, he gets it for her...no matter...and I won't go into it, but believe me when I say, she is well taken care of, plus, they constantly go on cruises...it's what she wants to do...he gives her, her every wish...and puts his own feelings and desires, dreams on the back burner.

I don't believe she is capable of understanding that, sometimes, people don't always want to do what she wants to do. It's always where she wants to go, when, and what time and she doesn't care if you want to go somewhere different, nor does care to ask.

Quote:
You can still ask her this question. You obviously hurt her. You may not think that you did anything to hurt her, but she does. It’s all about perception. If she perceives that you have hurt her, then it is real in her mind. It’s her reality. This makes it real. Thus, it is your reality and you a hurting, too, as a result. Reach out to her. Tell her that you are sorry that you hurt her. Be real. Be sincere. If you really mean it, she should feel it at some level. Be open. Let her talk. She obviously has so much to say, be willing to listen.


I do let her talk...believe me, I would like nothing more then to sit down and talk to her...but the point is, she doesn't want to discuss it...( and I bet you anything, a lot of things are just silly that she took as a personal attack against her character, which wasn't meant that way)

Please understand, I'm not dismissing her feelings by saying silly b/c I remember how I felt at times when I was a DIL...but things that bothered me then, are in fact silly now...and many of my friends have said the same thing, including girls her age. A lot of this stuff IS downright silly...and was taken the wrong way. I think in a lot of these situations, things got off on the wrong foot, b/c MIL was anxious to have a daughter, DIL was excited to start her own home, and had her own culture, and when MIL gave advice, it wasn't always received in the way it was given. I remember well....I thought I knew it all, and when my MIL gave me advice, I thought she was saying..."Your doing it all wrong" and she wasn't...but it was the way I perceived it. So I do understand.

Thanks for the discussion...and for taking the time to read...
Creme

Last edited by Cremebrulee; October 21st, 2009 at 06:08 AM.
  #13  
Old October 21st, 2009, 07:28 AM
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Re: New Thread for Seeking Sensibility

I don't usually get into these threads because I have nothing to add. However, I've made 2 observations over time:

1) Once someone is labeled, the odds of a good resolution fall dramatically. Now one no longer has to be responsible for their own behavior because the other person is evil, meanspirited, or broken beyond repair.

2) Although some insist they are not interfering, they voice very strong opinions about matters that are NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS, such as how the other person was raised, what a person does in their own home, what their personal beliefs are, how they raise their children, how they arrange finances and marital responsibilities, and so on. Chances are, if you were minding your own business, you wouldn't know enough about these things to make judgment, and then label the other person, leading right back to the first point.

It's a vicious cycle and all parties should just stop. Mind your own business, stop labeling, and own your contribution to the bad relationship.
  #14  
Old October 21st, 2009, 08:01 AM
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Re: New Thread for Seeking Sensibility

[quote=LucyVanPelt;31023]I don't usually get into these threads because I have nothing to add. However, I've made 2 observations over time:

Quote:
1) Once someone is labeled, the odds of a good resolution fall dramatically. Now one no longer has to be responsible for their own behavior because the other person is evil, meanspirited, or broken beyond repair.
I haven't in my own mind Labeled her...and as I stated, I'm not free of my own misgivings and contributions to this...is she mean, evil, I don't know, but would love to sit down with her and see if she's willing to disguss...after 13 years, do you really think she'd be willing? Beyond Broken? I don't believe she is...and as well as you may see in your own thoughts what I'm writing, it isn't always what the reader is seeing, depending on their own experiences...feelings, etc.

Quote:
2) Although some insist they are not interfering, they voice very strong opinions about matters that are NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS, such as how the other person was raised, what a person does in their own home, what their personal beliefs are, how they raise their children, how they arrange finances and marital responsibilities, and so on. Chances are, if you were minding your own business, you wouldn't know enough about these things to make judgment, and then label the other person, leading right back to the first point.
Perhaps you are right...come back and tell me that once your children are married and perhaps not doing as well as you'd like them to be doing....it's human nature to want the best for your children...and perhaps I'm wrong, but when you see your child allowing himself to be a victim, it really gets to you...while, yes, indeed, it is none of my business...

Quote:
It's a vicious cycle and all parties should just stop. Mind your own business, stop labeling, and own your contribution to the bad relationship.
I would like to do just that, and perhaps someday, we will be able to talk

it's so much easier to advise when your not personally/emotionally involved...you can see things the other person cannot see...
and you give sound advise...

it's like a go round...when your constantly rejected and that person who is doing the rejecting won't sit down and talk with you, that's making a pretty clear statement...

If I did or said something that upset/offended you, wouldn't you discuss it with me, rather then shut everything down?

I don't know, perhaps your right....all the way around...it's just so hard when someone rejects you and causes family problems and won't tell you what you did to start this in the first place.
  #15  
Old October 21st, 2009, 09:13 AM
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Re: New Thread for Seeking Sensibility

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cremebrulee View Post
If I did or said something that upset/offended you, wouldn't you discuss it with me, rather then shut everything down?
Whether or not an issue is "discussed" depends on one thing and one thing only... is anyone listening?

In LL's case, there's no point. She'd be talking to alcohol and alcohol doesn't listen.

Label it as shutting down, walking away, what have you, but unless you're listening for understanding then there's no point in talking. Discussing, talking, thinking about a response, opining, labeling, defending, tucking away information for later use to justify your position....none of these count. Only listening that is listening for understanding counts.

If no one is listening then there's no point in talking.
  #16  
Old October 21st, 2009, 10:27 AM
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Re: New Thread for Seeking Sensibility

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Originally Posted by LucyVanPelt View Post
Whether or not an issue is "discussed" depends on one thing and one thing only... is anyone listening?

In LL's case, there's no point. She'd be talking to alcohol and alcohol doesn't listen.

Label it as shutting down, walking away, what have you, but unless you're listening for understanding then there's no point in talking. Discussing, talking, thinking about a response, opining, labeling, defending, tucking away information for later use to justify your position....none of these count. Only listening that is listening for understanding counts.

If no one is listening then there's no point in talking.
you, have made a very good point, and point well taken
thank you
Creme
  #17  
Old October 21st, 2009, 02:06 PM
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Re: New Thread for Seeking Sensibility

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Originally Posted by LucyVanPelt View Post
Only listening that is listening for understanding counts.

If no one is listening then there's no point in talking.
Had to just pipe up to say this reminds me of a favorite quote from Mignon McLaughlin:

"No one really listens to anyone else, and if you try it for awhile you'll see why."

  #18  
Old October 22nd, 2009, 12:08 PM
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Re: New Thread for Seeking Sensibility

HHH, Lucy, what you've said is so true! I've been doing some 'self-help' work lately, and one of the 'habits', (as the author calls it), I've come across in dealing with certain family dynamics is "seek first to understand, then be understood", don't just practice empathy, empathize.
  #19  
Old October 23rd, 2009, 04:08 AM
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Re: New Thread for Seeking Sensibility

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Originally Posted by Blue Skies View Post
HHH, Lucy, what you've said is so true! I've been doing some 'self-help' work lately, and one of the 'habits', (as the author calls it), I've come across in dealing with certain family dynamics is "seek first to understand, then be understood", don't just practice empathy, empathize.
Hello Blue Skies and good morning...
I was wondering, if you would share the name of the self help book your working on?

Thanks
Creme
  #20  
Old October 24th, 2009, 09:10 AM
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Re: New Thread for Seeking Sensibility

(Hello Blue Skies and good morning...
I was wondering, if you would share the name of the self help book your working on?

Thanks
Creme ) QUOTE

Of Course, Creme, I left the info on a Private Message to you.
...Blue Skies
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