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  #21  
Old October 27th, 2009, 08:45 AM
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Re: New Thread for Seeking Sensibility

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Originally Posted by LucyVanPelt View Post
I don't usually get into these threads because I have nothing to add. However, I've made 2 observations over time:

1) Once someone is labeled, the odds of a good resolution fall dramatically. Now one no longer has to be responsible for their own behavior because the other person is evil, meanspirited, or broken beyond repair.

2) Although some insist they are not interfering, they voice very strong opinions about matters that are NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS, such as how the other person was raised, what a person does in their own home, what their personal beliefs are, how they raise their children, how they arrange finances and marital responsibilities, and so on. Chances are, if you were minding your own business, you wouldn't know enough about these things to make judgment, and then label the other person, leading right back to the first point.

It's a vicious cycle and all parties should just stop. Mind your own business, stop labeling, and own your contribution to the bad relationship.
chances are, in the beginning, if she had sat down and discussed with me, why she was angry at me, instead of running in and out of the bedroom while I was there, pretending to have a headache, and then when hubby came home, she was as sweet as pie, the other issues, that I should have nothing to say about, wouldn't have come up. But when you treat people miserably...nasty and aloof, these other things that ARE none of my business now become an issue...I have never voiced any opinion to her about any of these things...I was simply angry and venting online...and I believe your opinion is valid, while you see only what you want to see....haven't you ever been hurt by someone, then you get angry by the rejection and spout off about things that have nothing to do with the issue at hand?

what about the things she did to me? What about my feelings...? If I only knew what I did...when someone rejects you and give you nothing to work on...everything else becomes huge problems...that is human nature...right or wrong...I didn't mean anything by it...it just becomes a defense mechanisum and you wonder, what kind of life your son's living if it is so easy for her to shut you out...cut you off and drive a wedge between you and your son. Then you start to wonder,,,,What could my son be thinking, he knows me better then anyone...then I say to myself....Creme, if it were you, if you were your son, what would you do? He loves her, she is the love of his life.

Last edited by Cremebrulee; October 27th, 2009 at 10:10 AM.
  #22  
Old October 27th, 2009, 10:27 AM
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Re: New Thread for Seeking Sensibility

Seeking Sensibility

I read your story, and I must say, your story is utterly deplorable...I cannot believe human beings act that way...and hurt each other that way.

It's nuts, I'm very sorry, but I have no other words to describe it...and I'm sorry you have had to live with this or know this....

I am not your mother in law, and am also very sorry you equate me to her...doesn't say much for me, does it.
  #23  
Old October 28th, 2009, 10:30 PM
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Re: New Thread for Seeking Sensibility

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Originally Posted by Cremebrulee View Post
Seeking Sensibility

I read your story, and I must say, your story is utterly deplorable...I cannot believe human beings act that way...and hurt each other that way.
You said ‘hurt each other". In that, do you mean that I hurt people, also? I am not trying to defend myself. To the contrary, I am open to any suggestions as to what I could or should have done differently.
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Originally Posted by Cremebrulee View Post
It's nuts, I'm very sorry, but I have no other words to describe it...and I'm sorry you have had to live with this or know this....
I’m surprised that you would take the time to read my story. Did you read all of it? I was in a bad place then. I don’t remember everything that I said. I said things during counseling about my mil, but it was fractional in comparison to my thread. She has said and done things that have hurt me. In respect to her overall character, I did not tell the story of what I thought was the worst. What do you think was the worst?


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Originally Posted by Cremebrulee View Post
I am not your mother in law, and am also very sorry you equate me to her...doesn't say much for me, does it.
I’m quite certain that I acknowledged the fact that you are indeed not my mil. It pains me to think that you read all of that garbage with a comparison note. Why would you do that? I felt that I made a comparison in only the context of our discussion. I drew a mil/dil comparison based on your rhetorical need to send a rhetorical birthday card in the midst of chaos.

I have only tried to tell you that (over and over again) if your dil has a problem with you, address it. Based on your posts, it sounds to me that you have had plenty opportunities to do so, but declined. This is the only comparison. She is angry with you. It’s your job to remedy the issue. You’re the one at a loss. This is what I have been trying to say to you. Your son loves his wife. If you have a problem with her, you need to fix it. My story is only a representation of how bad it can get when a mil refuses to take accountability, that’s the only comparison. Again, you are not my mil.

I apologize if my response appears to be hard and insensitive. I think you’re okay, though. You, like me, are just looking for answers.

Last edited by Seeking Sensibility; October 28th, 2009 at 10:40 PM.
  #24  
Old October 29th, 2009, 06:19 AM
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Re: New Thread for Seeking Sensibility

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Seeking Sensibility You said Ďhurt each other". In that, do you mean that I hurt people, also?
No, I meant your inlaws and others like my DIL who hurt others for their own specific gains

Quote:
Did you read all of it? I was in a bad place then.


Yes I did, and was shocked at your MIL's behavior, of course you were in a bad place, all you want to do is get along, yanno??? and when your (your meaning anyone) rejected it hurts, it says, you did something to hurt me, I don't like you and on and on. I believe your MIL has problems that can never be fixed.

I'm terribly sorry, but she's to old and to self imposed to care about the feelings of others. By the way, did she go to counseling with you and your husband?

Quote:
I donít remember everything that I said. I said things during counseling about my mil, but it was fractional in comparison to my thread. She has said and done things that have hurt me. In respect to her overall character, I did not tell the story of what I thought was the worst. What do you think was the worst?
I cannot say which is worse then the other, to me, her actions were quit candidly driven by money, and self imposition, only caring about results and not the feelings of others, to the extent of controlling their lives.

Quote:
Iím quite certain that I acknowledged the fact that you are indeed not my mil. It pains me to think that you read all of that garbage with a comparison note. Why would you do that?
Because in a few of your posts, you mentioned to me in response, that, "That is something my MIL would say", or That is how my MIL would think"

Quote:
I felt that I made a comparison in only the context of our discussion. I drew a mil/dil comparison based on your rhetorical need to send a rhetorical birthday card in the midst of chaos.
To me, and please understand, this doesn't make you right and me wrong, or visa versa.

we were both raised to believe differently. call it our own personal cultures & this is where a lot of problems start by not being able to understand that when other's disagree, they are not attacking your character, it's how they were raised to think and feel, it's all they know?

I was raised to send birthday cards, thank you cards and/or a call to say thank you, & anniversary cards. It was considered to be impolite to not send cards in those days, at least in my own families culture.

About a year before my DIL's birthday, I was still very angry with her and didn't know what I was going to do but as her birthday drew closer, I couldn't not send her a card and birthday present? That would have been vindictive, mean and insulting. I sent her husband and daughter a birthday card with money. That to me would have been SO wrong.

Quote:
I have only tried to tell you that (over and over again) if your dil has a problem with you, address it. Based on your posts, it sounds to me that you have had plenty opportunities to do so, but declined. This is the only comparison. She is angry with you. Itís your job to remedy the issue. Youíre the one at a loss. This is what I have been trying to say to you. Your son loves his wife. If you have a problem with her, you need to fix it. My story is only a representation of how bad it can get when a mil refuses to take accountability, thatís the only comparison. Again, you are not my mil.
I understand completely what your saying. That would work with most people (DIL's) but when I tried to discuss it with her, I didn't get thru the first sentance and she went balistic on me, accussing me of hurting her...she was yelling at me..."You hurt me"...and I was set back by her anger and yelling..I'm not used to that...my counselor said, it was her way of manipulating the conversation...she wouldn't allow me any time to tell her my points of view...she didn't want to discuss it, and by yelling, it's her way of manipulating me into forgetting what I was saying and taking control of the conversation.

I lost all train of thought and became speechless, didn't even think to say "Well, Dil please calm down and discuss this...what did I do to hurt you". I'm ashamed to admit this...but stupid ol me, started to cry like a freakin baby... I hated that, I hated that she saw me weak...and while I was crying she said, "I don't know that I could ever trust you again". But, I was so upset, I couldn't even think, so I never said, "What did I do that you can't trust me?".

You see, her own mother walked in and out of her life like a revolving door. She'd be gone for years, and then come back again. Her one sister and her, are friends for a while, then they get mad at each other and they won't talk to each other for years...you have to understand what this woman went thru when she was little...my son doesn't know everything? But this hurt and abandonment she experienced from little on up, b/c her culture and the only way she knew how to deal with being abandoned. She I believe thought, feared I wouldn't like her, as she has little confidence in herself...so, did she reject me, before I could reject her? Only she knows the answers?

I am not used to people yelling. I have MS, it's managable, and not nearly as bad as some, but I forget things quickly and become unraveled when people start yelling at me.

My kind of MS is not dabilitating as of yet, but the 1st attack was severe and left me with nerve damage. There are many people with MS, no two people experience the like.

Cannot stand loud noises. I have memory lapes, need a large amount of sleep, if I don't get sleep, I have focusing issues, slow thinking, and an inability to verbally express myself. And I run from confrontation, b/c it is very upsetting to me. I didn't used to be like this...I was strong and able to fight my own battles and feared nothing.

I repeat things, b/c I can't remember what I've read or written the next day. I watch movies over & over again, b/c I forget them, and yet, there are many issues that have happened in my life, I never forget. There are parts of my life that are complete blanks, that people tell me about. I short circut and unravel.

My son tells me she will never talk to me, and by her returning that card, it upset me for weeks...it's her way of saying, your not welcome in my life, and If I'm not welcome in her life, what do you think that means for the rest of us...my son, my GD? I bet, my son feels disloyal when he contacts me.

Yanno something...whatever it is I did, my God, it's been 13 years of this. Why continue it? This is nuts...silly, awful and stagnating.

She wants it this way. This way, if they come home, she won't come visit, therefore, neither will my son, and even if he did, can you imagine how guilty he would feel by doing so, and leaving her alone?

And what about my GD....Do you know, I haven't seen my GD in 4 years? Do you know I watched her every single weekend for a year until they moved back down south. They didn't come and visit me the last two times they were home. Can you imagine, what did I do, that was so bad, that I deserve to be hurt like that...not to mention, be treated like this?

Quote:
I apologize if my response appears to be hard and insensitive. I think youíre okay, though. You, like me, are just looking for answers.
No need to apologize, I do understand where your coming from...you to seemed like you were looking for answers...but please realize, and I can't stress this enough...b/c I'm a MIL, having problems with my DIL, I'm actually the same as you guys, with a generation gap, but I'm not a nasty person.

I'd give anything to have a DIL who I got along with, with whom we were friends...I watch my friends with their DIL's and it makes me so sad....they love each other...my DIL, hates me?

I'm not a mother who is needy...I don't need my son in my life constantly....but I would like a normal relationship with my son, grand daugther and DIL when they are in town and I don't know why, for that short period of time, we can't forgive and forget it and move forward, and just get along.

And when I say, my son's father and step mother are scared to death of her, that she will do the same thing to them, as she has done to me, I'm not exaggerating.

I know my son will always love me...but when a DIL acts as she does...the husband wants peace...he's going to go where she wants to go, and do what she wants to do....when in fact, in the beginning, like I said before, he should have said to both of us...

Do you know, when I'd be around them, I was actually afraid to hug my son, to show him love...I tried so hard to pull her into conversations, and ignore him...so that she wouldn't feel slighted. She wouldn't budge, she would answer yes, or no, and never elaborate on any topic to engage in conversation?

By the way, Please, thanks for the apology but no need for it.

I do appreciate your feedback and understanding and the ability to see things from a DIL's point of view.

Creme
  #25  
Old October 30th, 2009, 04:04 PM
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Re: New Thread for Seeking Sensibility

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Originally Posted by Cremebrulee View Post
I believe your MIL has problems that can never be fixed.
I agree. My husband has defended her by saying she is ignorant and set in her ways. Yet, he claims she is a good person because she goes to church every week and is a deacon of her church (so what...the BTK killer, too, was a deacon). Too me, the hypocrisy is most unnerving. It's my opinion that she goes to church for mainly appearances and to gossip.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance". Socrates

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cremebrulee View Post
I'm terribly sorry, but she's to old and to self imposed to care about the feelings of others. By the way, did she go to counseling with you and your husband?
My mil is too ignorant to see how her words and actions hurt others and too selfish to care.

During the last session, the counselor asked my husband questions about his mother such as: Have you had conflicts with her as a child? Has she been known to have conflicts with others? My husband's response was "No" and "No". My husband will defend his mother. Unfortunately, this was the end of the session and I had no chance to rebut. I believe the truth about his mother is much more difficult to deal with than the act of denial.

Anyway, we have not been back to counseling, not my doing. If he chooses not to see the counselor anymore, then he knows that he's going to have to "stuff" the mil issue. That means no discussion about her. This works for me! If he chooses to go back to the counselor, then he will have to deal with his mother issues straight-on. This works for me, also!

My mil has not been to any of the sessions. I have no problem addressing issues in front of an objective third party. However, I doubt it would happen. If she went, she would surely play the sufferer. She'll cry, deny, and say goodbye! I have no doubt.

If you want a relationship with your son and granddaughter, I would suggest that you do not do the same. I'd be more concerned about addressing your dil's "You hurt me" statement more than trying to get your viewpoint across. Your dil may be content about the current situation and she doesn't care about your viewpoint. If you're not content with the situation, then you're going to have to care about her viewpoint.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cremebrulee View Post
I was raised to send birthday cards, thank you cards and/or a call to say thank you, & anniversary cards. It was considered to be impolite to not send cards in those days, at least in my own families culture.
I get it about the birthday cards, already. I just wonder if your dil may need a little more acknowledgement than a rhetorically signed birthday card. Obviously, you can't talk to her if she is going to yell. Has the counselor suggested another avenue?

I feel like we're going in circles.
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Originally Posted by Cremebrulee View Post
You see, her own mother walked in and out of her life like a revolving door. She'd be gone for years, and then come back again. Her one sister and her, are friends for a while, then they get mad at each other and they won't talk to each other for years...you have to understand what this woman went thru when she was little...my son doesn't know everything? But this hurt and abandonment she experienced from little on up, b/c her culture and the only way she knew how to deal with being abandoned. She I believe thought, feared I wouldn't like her, as she has little confidence in herself...so, did she reject me, before I could reject her? Only she knows the answers?
If it were me, I'd let go of this. First of all, you don't really know all of the things that have formed your dil. Secondly, if you're going to going to do that, it'd make sense for you to figure out her mother, then her mother, and so on...you'd have to go back to the beginning of creation. What's the sense in that? There comes a time when a person becomes an adult and is accountable for their actions. Period.
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Originally Posted by Cremebrulee View Post
And when I say, my son's father and step mother are scared to death of her, that she will do the same thing to them, as she has done to me, I'm not exaggerating.
Do you have a good relationship with them? Do they have an idea of why your dil feels that you've hurt her?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cremebrulee View Post
I am not used to people yelling. I have MS, it's managable, and not nearly as bad as some, but I forget things quickly and become unraveled when people start yelling at me.
I'm sorry about your health condition. I'm sure the MS presents many daily challenges for you. I only hope that today is a good day.
  #26  
Old October 30th, 2009, 06:27 PM
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Re: New Thread for Seeking Sensibility

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Originally Posted by Cremebrulee View Post
...and I believe your opinion is valid, while you see only what you want to see....
Would you care to explain what this means?
  #27  
Old October 31st, 2009, 04:51 AM
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Re: New Thread for Seeking Sensibility

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Originally Posted by LucyVanPelt View Post
Whether or not an issue is "discussed" depends on one thing and one thing only... is anyone listening?

In LL's case, there's no point. She'd be talking to alcohol and alcohol doesn't listen.


Label it as shutting down, walking away, what have you, but unless you're listening for understanding then there's no point in talking. Discussing, talking, thinking about a response, opining, labeling, defending, tucking away information for later use to justify your position....none of these count. Only listening that is listening for understanding counts.

If no one is listening then there's no point in talking.
Makes sense.
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Old October 31st, 2009, 04:53 AM
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Re: New Thread for Seeking Sensibility

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Originally Posted by Seeking Sensibility View Post
I'm sorry about your health condition. I'm sure the MS presents many daily challenges for you. I only hope that today is a good day.
Now now, girls. Lets play nice.
  #29  
Old October 31st, 2009, 07:30 AM
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Re: New Thread for Seeking Sensibility

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Originally Posted by Seeking Sensibility View Post
I'm sorry about your health condition. I'm sure the MS presents many daily challenges for you. I only hope that today is a good day.

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Originally Posted by LadyLove View Post
Now now, girls. Lets play nice.


I thought Seeking Sensibility's remark was well-meant. Different perspective's I guess. Just thought I would chime in.
  #30  
Old October 31st, 2009, 02:26 PM
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Re: New Thread for Seeking Sensibility

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I thought Seeking Sensibility's remark was well-meant. Different perspective's I guess. Just thought I would chime in.
Did you read this entire thread? I definitely sensed some sarcasm but it was done tastefully. No harm done. They are just voicing their opinions in unique ways.
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